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Friday, July 04, 2003 |
ILAW - Wrap UpNesson Take experience of week in put in self-reflective terms to crystallize a question. I have found myself in slightly uncomfortable position – I was to the left of Fisher – now, I am not so. So, faculty members think in terms of question for the others. To Terry Fisher: would we like to see a digital music world in which people buy their music through iTunes an like delivery services. Would Terry say no? bks his system is better ? Or, if yes – will an iTune like model thrive if people can get music for free? The answer will depend upon the split of the market between customers as legitimate consumers and those that choose to not pay. Will a crash of the existing copyright system lead to change in the copyright system or change in the net? Do we want to take a chance of finding out? So, Terry , that is my question to you <gr> Fisher Some minor changes in law could curtail the illegitimate activity – would be lot better than what we have. Music would be cheaper more widely available. 1. Retain current structure of music industry and focus on 2. (gonna have to listen to the recording and figure this out) Zoned Internet (cut up for enforcement) – or global phenom? Jonathan To imagine cutting it up into cantons seems antithetical. On other hand, from a lawyer’s point of view it sounds like that is what the doctor has ordered. But I think majority of stuff on the net is speech and therefore deserves all the protection it can receive. My question to Larry : What’s the right political process through which to make decisions about the kind of internet we collectively want? Lessig I think it is harmful to imagine these conversations in one large place or being broadcast – (talking of convention) – it will happen when 10 million people convene on the net to discuss the idea and experience what it is to come to a conclusion with someone else. The politics looks like another 5 years of increasing bottom up conversation of these issues – which would be an amazing change. It would be an amazing change returning to what a democracy truly looks like. Question Database protection is big in Benkler Mid-90’s EU passes directive. US 5 years before that under We haven’t seen the European industry flourish – or US shrink. It is not be good idea… I do not think it is as close to being passed as it was three years ago. The legislation is part of the enclosure movement. The need for stronger property rights is a fallacy. Question We are forcing different groups to ignore the law (sharing music, other countries violating drugs, patents) – and this is not stopping the behavior thus eroding belief in the law. Would you rather have them stealing your software? (I stepped out, check the recording) …. Question How do you relate semiotic democracy to political mobilization? Benkler There are three questions to your questions 1. Digital Divide – when necessary condition to capture benefits requires capital expenditure does that exclude poor users? 2. Does internetworking in decentralized mode help political mobilization across geographical areas? Easy – look at protests in 3. With regard to digital divide – combination of economic technology transfer and capital on investment in ict’s and including mechanism for pooling resources (i.e. libraries and kiosks) 4. Do we fragment common identity by adopting this decentralized model? We already have destabilization of old community lines – the recreation of communities of interest that transcend these old boundaries – Question If media is so powerful, why not use it to get the story out? You can’t explain it in 10 seconds. Mainstream media won’t spend that much time to gain the understanding. It may also be the way we dress? What were your interests that led you in to internet law? Jonathan: Internet brought me into law rather than the other way around. It was being 12 moderating a forum on compuserve. Being able to exchange words without people worrying about how old I was – sort of brought me into it. Larry: Juliane Lebell “Rape of Cyberspace” – “I know that these are only words “ people didn’t understand their own politics. Teaching cyberspace I could trick the students to think about what they thought. Benkler: I was focused more on property rules and their relationship to freedom and I completely by chance someone asking for money writing an email on internet law. I decided I should focus on things that were coming into being as I could actually affect it. Fisher: interested in property rights a long time bks it was a subject that dealt with power. Which brought me to intellectual property law… the most notorious locus brought me into the internet arena. Nesson: Took course on Univac I in 1958 – nothing really happened until Zittrain showed up in a class of mine. I happened to have a grant from a company that we spent on Mac quattras (?) did digital projects with anetwork – Jonathan madeit all work – I got into it for the potential for teaching. How much do people think the code, the architecture, etc of the internet a Larry: we are being governed by it…. [….] Is Marxism alive on the net? Hmmm…. The language does remind one of socialist economics. Benkler: Libertarian approach may be best… and then it may be best answered in social engineering terms rather than law or agency… What’s the appropriate role of the government? Fisher: I agree with Yochai that the sensible approach is a pragmatic one. It is mistake to see copyright as a natural extension of market – as it is a system representing massive intervention of government power… into how people behave. … Is Internet law a field or passing phase? It is uniquely powerful in its potential. Benkler: Not convinced that is an appropriate question… Larry: Close comment [] 6:32:42 PM
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Freedom and Political MoralityBenkler Regulation of speech · Law o Affects speech through formal censorship § Smut · Lady Chaterly’s lover · Technology o Brown paper covers o Radio cleaned by law o CIPA § Cyberporn § Law requires verification of age via credit card – increase oppty for social surveillance which ties to social norms · Social Norms o Shame of asking for copy kept behind counter · Market o Pervasive violence but prudish on sex/nudity … Zittrain Demos filtering at Saudi site And AG in Get link to his empirical analysis of filtering in china … [will have to refer to others here – and consult my recorder} … Political Democratic Discourse
[hmm.. I’m paying attention now – course the last time I read political economy papers – I got a headache.] How are these effected by the internet when it is open? …. Possibility and Challenge
Building the commons A core common infrastructure Physical layer – funded by public Logical layer Secure a free and open logical layer Reverse DMCA and UCIT Content layer Resist the enclosure movement and reclaim the public domain Intellectual infrastructure Non-market production (ok, I would rather see more market) Institutional infrastructure Social practice Politics of Freedom in the Commons comment [] 3:35:46 PM
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PrivacyJonathan Zittrain Mollie Van Houweling Lessig It is great for you to show up. But you will be rewarded appropriately. We will entertain as many thoughts as possible today. Zittrain Mollie also worked at ICANN longer than she probably wanted to. Privacy is a topic that everyone feels strongly about – but when you get into it, it turns into mush. So, while it is interesting, we don’t have the answers, and thus it isn’t as fun to teach about. Categories of things we don’t like teaching about Specific examples of things we don’t like teaching about Categories of Privacy
Carnivore – discussion of technology. Taking government to task for seeing data it may not intentionally want to see – is troublesome Kyollo – thermal imaging case – court ruled expectation of privacy was breached when police used thermal imaging camera and saw marijuana and then got a search warrant But the baseline for regulatable search is shifting as technology shifts. Z Does it make sense to say we had an equilibrium before the internet? How easy is it for the cop to intervene? Kyollo says once imaging is available (and expectations of privacy are lowered) then it will be allright Cookies Basic tech discussion Looks at ABOUT.COM for a cookie demonstration Privacy policy… of web sites – opt in Mollie “Americans will sell their privacy, bit by bit, for frequent flier miles.” Z IRS established DIF formula (regression analysis to spot tax cheats) An individual FIOAd the DIF formula (govt invoked a National Security defense) Chilling effect of TIA, DIF – what does it mean? [there is a raging discussion on the right to privacy on how government use of technology – focusing on accountability, abuse – interesting that the folks from Placing tracking tech in razor blade packages – you could inventory the contents of a house with such technology. Audience Conversation shifting to personal information treated as property. Discussion on The Nuremberg Files – web site […]
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Last update: 7/12/2004; 4:53:41 PM .
